Boeing helped design Sukhoi's RRJ, so how come it has sidesticks?

It's an odd thing but, although Boeing was very publicly involved in the design of Sukhoi's Russian Regional Jet (RRJ), the aircraft has actually come out more Airbus-influenced. I'm not yet sure how important that is, but it's possible that it could matter more than you might imagine.

In particular the aircraft has sidestick controllers rather than control yokes - and that represents an explicit decision by Sukhoi to go with Airbus thinking rather than Boeing.

I've been talking a fair bit to Russians and Westerners involved in the RRJ recently and here's the story. Boeing, as I've mentioned before, has always been pretty ambivalent about the RRJ and got itself tied in some PR knots trying to explain in Russia that it was an important contributor to the programme, and in the West (and to shareholders) that its involvement was strictly limited. I think everyone knew what they meant, but it was messy, and the reason was that their interest was driven by the campaign to sell 737s to Aeroflot. That failed (and Aeroflot is going to need many more narrowbodies than the A320 it has so far ordered, so it was expensive) and ever since Boeing has been playing down its RRJ role even further. (It's also winning the Aeroflot widebody contest in which the airline is fighting to take 787s against government-level forces that are insisting on the A350. I know that much is true, but I'm not pretending to understand what's going on.)

Anyway, at the same time it was talking to Boeing, Sukhoi was put in touch with Air France by Aeroflot for heavyweight airline advice on the RRJ design. They also spoke to other European airlines including at least Iberia and SAS who were all being briefed by Airbus on the Thales-designed A380 cockpit by then and were hugely impressed with it. As a result, as we revealed at the time, changes were made - one of which was the switch to sidesticks in a cockpit also designed by Thales.

The upshot is that the RRJ will have substantial cockpit-commonality with Airbus aircraft. Is that important? Well, an awful lot of narrowbodies and regional jets are going to be sold in Russia and the CIS. How many and how soon is a very difficult question to answer - and Boeing and Airbus are both cagey about it in their forecasts. But Aeroflot went with Airbus (and is committed to taking the RRJ) and now Sibir/S7 is going the same way.

I hear the Russian government is also leaning on Vietnam Airlines, which like Aeroflot has Airbus narrowbodies and Boeing widebodies, to look at the RRJ. And more worryingly still, Sukhoi, backed by the army of French suppliers on the RRJ, is now targeting China where the indigenous ARJ21 is making little headway, and where the narrowbody market is of course gigantic.

The large regional jet sector just below the smallest Airbus and Boeing narrowbodies, is a very big deal and both of the big airframers are uncomfortable with it. They don't really want to address it themselves, but they don't want the players in it to grow into new competitors - which is why they were quick to rubbish Bombardier's CSeries.

Two years ago Randy Baseler said to me that Boeing was probably going to have to go and duff up Bombardier (or words to that effect) because they couldn't afford not to. What he actually said was: "Embraer and Bombardier really have to go up into the bigger market, because when the scope clauses go then everybody is going to move up. We are not so much concerned about the initial entries there, but about where they go from there. Do they go into 130, 150, 170 seats? Are we concerned? Well, partially.”

On the other hand, Boeing would probably rather see Sukhoi - Airbus-influenced or not - in the market than out because they will hurt both Bombardier and Embraer. My enemy's enemy....

 

posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 1:52 PM by Kieran Daly

# re: Boeing helped design Sukhoi's RRJ, so how come it has sidesticks? @ Wednesday, May 03, 2006 1:21 PM

Well ... I think you have put the finger on something ...

Cochet Gilles

# re: Boeing helped design Sukhoi's RRJ, so how come it has sidesticks? @ Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:21 PM

This was great piece. I have been following RRJ's progress and think it has a great future. What interests me most is the the progress it makes in the China Market.Any news on that - because to break into the China market would be a great news which along with the CIS market would truly give RRJ a very promising start. Looking forward to hearing more.

Jesse

# re: Boeing helped design Sukhoi's RRJ, so how come it has sidesticks? @ Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:43 PM

What about the merger of all the Russian design bureaus into one corporation? I've been hearing rumblings about a 'United Aircraft' conglomerate (there was a NYT article a while back, I think) and I'm curious how this unification will affect the RRJ.

Eric

# re: Boeing helped design Sukhoi's RRJ, so how come it has sidesticks? @ Friday, May 19, 2006 7:50 PM

Some years ago at the height of the now defunct Brazilian FX-BR (next fighter) bid, the Russians approached Embraer with a proposal to build its ERJ145 and 170/190 lines under licence in Russia. Some Russian companies weren't confortable with the RRJ development timeline and workshare proposals and thought that no RRJ could be a better deal for them. At the time Embraer was confident it had the political clout to shove its Mirage 2000Br down FAB's throat and ignored this offer. Maybe if they had closed the manufacuring deal maybe the RRJ would never have made it this far...

Regards,

Felipe Salles

# re: Boeing helped design Sukhoi's RRJ, so how come it has sidesticks? @ Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:30 AM

What's not clear is why the RRJ is being designed by a fighter/attack aircraft specialist, and not by the more experienced passenger aircraft design bureaux of Tupolev, Iliushin or Yakovlev. Suhoi had to start from almost zero. No wonder they started by initially designing "another 737".

Does it have to do with Putin getting a free ride on one of Suhoi's fighters?

Roger

# re: Boeing helped design Sukhoi's RRJ, so how come it has sidesticks? @ Friday, September 01, 2006 1:37 PM

actually putin is a fighter pilot

willigenburg

# re: Boeing helped design Sukhoi's RRJ, so how come it has sidesticks? @ Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:52 PM

The problem is that the passenger aircraft design bureaux just dont have the money to design a new aircraft. Ok, Tupolev is marketing its Tu204 and Tu214 and could have design a shrink, but these are still soviet models, they were designed under totally different circumstances and to different standards. The Iliushin bureaux is nearly dead an Yakovlev only twice built a passenger jet, last time 25 years ago...
But still the most important fact is, that Sukhoi has money, their fighters are well selling in Asia and the decision to make a passenger jet is somewhat of a try to be less dependend on military jets. All the technology that make the Su-fighters so remarkable was made in the USSR, thats stock disposal. The thrust vectoring is an invention of the 60's. The Gulf states are building an airline industry to rely less on oil, Sukhoi wants to rely less an fighters. And what happens when Sukhoi tries to build anything thats no fighter? Just have a look at the Su-100/T-4. So will the RRJ have fighter like handling qualities? ;)

Peter